posted 24 May 2006 10:45 AM              

Geography: it's all encompassing

posted 24 May 2006 05:20 PM               

a) Apologies for any confusion over signing up to the campaign. It was all done in a rush and I still haven't had time to look at the finer points - will try this evening. Apart from a few people (possibly an AOL problem) I think that everyone who has tried to sign up has done so successfully. All it does currently is send me an e-mail with your responses. Then, yes, I add these details manually to the website list. So have faith, if you don't get an error message your name will appear on the list relatively quickly.

b) Could the Cheshire Kat please register or go away! I agree with the sentiment but not the duplicate messages.

c) If the ball keeps rolling,we can certainly think about (tasteful) T-shirts, pens, etc but I still think we need large numbers of people first, a very, very large number...

c) Yes, things are beginning to happen - numbers are creeping up but the deluge will depend, as Val and others have said, on everyone telling at least one other Geographer and preferably more. Many people might be interested but do not frequent the forums. So spread the word!

Also people need to search out contacts in the media. One or two people have already done this and some interest is being shown.

I would like some people with a good command of the English language and a sharp geographical mind to have a go at producing a 'press release' type statement in case we are actually asked to summarise what we are griping about and what we would like to happen. I can have a go but am keen to see what others come up with. Send me your 200 words by e-mail please - I don't want to be caught out or we will all look stupid.

Thanks to everyone for their efforts so far. One of my favourite comments at the moment is that this is a 'group thing'...brings a warm glow, etc.

posted 24 May 2006 09:25 PM               

So, when you switch off and come back to your computers, get emailing!

I notice from the petition list that the 'ball is rolling' up in Scotland now. It was easy to write a short email, send it off to a few people and ask them to forward it. Go on, give it a try!

posted 24 May 2006 11:14 PM               

I have adapted the signing up page and it now gives a 'thank you' message when you have clicked on submit before taking you back to the main page - a little more user friendly.

I would like to do a thank you page with links to each of the websites that have put up a P.G.i.i.P. campaign logo. Can you let me know if you have added a logo and your web address. Thanks

posted 25 May 2006 11:48 AM               

It was always a battle even when in the BBC 10 years ago. You have my full endorsement from out here in East Asia. Well done for the idea and well done for picking it up so quickly.

posted 25 May 2006 11:54 AM              

Geography- The best subject on Earth

posted 25 May 2006 12:47 PM               

But may I make a suggestion to whoever does?

It is self-evident to us as geographers that this is a good idea. For effective lobbying do we not need to up the ante in showing the media why it is a good idea for them to listen carefully to us?

Amongst our demands of what we want the media to do, I think we should be attempting to say more about what the media stands to gain from acquiescing to said demands (quid pro quo). Why should the media listen to us? What's in it for them? Are we doing more than appealing to them on altruistic grounds to help our discipline prosper? Do we think that some sort of 'synopticity' by broadcasters - where they stress the connections between different parts of their output by labelling them all as geography -will give their messages a greater impact? And why would that actually be? Does it help them sell their output more easily and increase advertising revenues? Or are there any number of other reasons why they would be helping themselves by taking our suggested approach?

I think it would considerably strengthen the arm of what is already an amazingly focused and enthusiastic campaign if this aspect of the work were developed further, and I will try to think up some reasons myself while wading though A-level papers this weekend!

posted 25 May 2006 01:30 PM               

I just received a reply from the BBC and this was highlighted. It said:

"These programmes often fit into many
categories such as science, nature and geology. As they are factual programmes that
deal with the natural world they are often referred to as nature programmes." We need to encourage them to realise that the word which covers these categories is GEOGRAPHY, not 'nature'.

I am so behind this. I'm fighting with our website at the moment, but sooner or later, I'll win and the logo will be there!

posted 25 May 2006 02:04 PM               

Seriously, though, this is a huge stumbling block. If we are asking the BBC to introduce a massive change in its systems (just think of all the software, budgets, infrastructure and library systems that will use the word 'nature') we need some good reasons to make them do it.

One argument might be an intellectual argument along the lines of their artifical separation of "nature" from "culture" (which we as geographers know better not to do) does not help build up public awareness of how humans are imapcting upon natural systems? Then try and get an environmentalist heavy-weight like George Monbiot on-side.

Rather than complaining to newspaper editors, it would then be possible instead to single out potentially sympathetic journalists (once we have our arguments sorted out as to why they should get involved) and enlist their support.

posted 25 May 2006 03:54 PM               

1. Agree with Simon O. about 'what do the media stand to gain from listening to us' - this needs some thought and some input from people in general plus anyone with good 'inside' connections.

2. We need to take up the banner relating to Claire's response from the BBC - yes, some of the programmes are 'nature' but GEOGRAPHY is a much more appropriate label for so many of these issues-based programmes. What are the BBC and other media organisations afraid of? They are happy to label programmes as 'History' - we hear the word all the time on TV - so why not 'Geography'? We need to KEEP asking this question.

I am sure that you are all more than capable of arguing the point about why Geography is the most appropriate label but for anyone wanting some back up material, I will put up some info on the website.

3. Simon's second point about 'If we are asking the BBC to introduce a massive change in its systems....", I would disagree with. We are not asking for a retrospective change, what has passed has passed. We are looking to producers and executives who are planning for the future and we are asking them to support a subject which has existed for over 100 years and is, in it's current form, the most appropriate 'umbrella term' for looking at issues that address the interrelationship between mankind (can I still use that term?) and planet earth.

In the real world i.e. outside media circles, Geographers are in great demand and huge numbers of them are on a daily basis advising on and dealing with these critical issues relating to energy use, transport, urban development, resource exploitation, crime, retailing and so on. Well trained Geographers have both the skills and the 'special eye' which enables them to see issues not in the blinkered way of the economist or the scientist but in a much broader way. In my very humble opinion, organisations such as the BBC have simply buried their head in the sand - "While the media persist in defining geography in terms of game show trivia questions , the importance of our subject in helping young people make sense of their world is demeaned." (A quote from Val Vannet). OK off my personal soap box - time to add some more names to the list and some more info to the website.

4. Sorry, forgot to say thank you to everyone again. Please follow the example of the Scottish Geographers - e-mail a couple of Geographers and ask them to each e-mail two more. Keep the ball rolling.

posted 25 May 2006 09:02 PM               

The next Geography series could be called
'Geography lives on the BBC'

posted 25 May 2006 11:51 PM               

QUOTE FROM THE BBC EARLIER IN THIS FORUM FROM BRISTOLCLARE
"These programmes often fit into many
categories such as science, nature and geology. As they are factual programmes that
deal with the natural world they are often referred to as nature programmes." We need to encourage them to realise that the word which covers these categories is GEOGRAPHY, not 'nature'.

... the answer is quite simple and the problem rests in their response. Science, nature, geology (and lets not stop there), culture, relgion etc. Are frequently not visited in isolation but are shown in the context of interactions between places, people, environments, systems, ideas... as soon as programmes starts exploring interactions between human issues and the physical world they are stepping away from single categories and into geography. If BBC Horizon attempts to show the various effects and mitigation of tectonic hazards they step away from pure science and dip their toes into art and culture - the bridge is geography. If Sir David Attenborough wants to explore climate change or road kill he steps away from nature and into the realm of the geographer. The programme is no longer just about nature or science but the complex mix of percieved facts, opinions, perspectives, practices, cultures, presentations and skills (many of which are arts based) from a wealth of subject areas that only geography has to hand to explore in a multidimensional manner.

(how's that for a quote?)

I think it is this idea of geography being a bridge between subjects and issues that is one of our major strengths. For the listener or viewer when they read the word 'geography' they should know that they are getting not just a single perspective or subject area. A Climate Change programme labelled as 'Geography' means that they will get to see a programme that explore a mix of social, economic, political and environmental factors... not just one of these.

Can I also make the suggestion that people put the http://www.passion4geography.co.uk/ link onto the signature of their emails. That way lots of people can see it without you having to shout at everyone about it...

posted 26 May 2006 07:59 AM               

Some quick thoughts before the first meeting of the day....

Is there any way to get famous Geography graduates on board? I'm sure there is a previous thread on here about famous people who did Geography degrees... only I wouldn't have the faintest idea how to go about contacting them (well, I could work out where to post a letter to Prince William, but the rest..?)

What about people like Michael Palin? Not sure if he did Geography (this is where someone tells me he used to teach it or something) but I presume he's a bit keen on the subject!

Famous people may also attract more media interest.

posted 26 May 2006 10:04 AM               

Not sure about that article Dan. It is a huge article and there are, in places, some very negative comments, not about the subject but about the word - they would not make good quotes!!

It would be good if people, as part of their campaign effort could dig out 'positive quotes' which include the word geography - they must exist out there somewhere! Send them to me or post them here.

posted 27 May 2006 09:24 AM               

I am very keen to see geography promoted but one thing does concern me about the slogan. Doesn't to "be put in ones place" appear rather negative, isn't it a scolding response with the person being put in their place (in this case GEOGRAPHY) being told off or put right on something that they (in this case Geography) have misinterpreted? Maybe "Give Geography its place" / "Make way for Geography" or "Place Geography at the heart of everything you do" would need a logo change from hand to heart. Or even merge the two: "Hand it to geography its at the heart of everything" Just a thought.

Others have indicated concerns for recruitment .... that people don't see Geography as a subject that will get them a job ..... for promoting the subject I have, in the past, used slogans such as:

"Map out your future with Geography"
"You know where you are going with Geography"
"There are a world of options for you ..... it's called Geography"
"Geographers make a world of difference"

Maybe even "Geoggers do it all over the world"

Not sure it has worked but the posters brightened up the walls.

I am now waiting to be put in my place ;-)

Stuart

[This message has been edited by Dr.S.W.Hitch (edited 27 May 2006).]

posted 27 May 2006 10:01 AM               

Personally, I am using the quote from Helen as I am e-mailing people "Why are the media afraid of the G word?" - it has mystery and challenge and is, of course, just a little bit naughty in its connotation.

The most important aspect of all this is that people talk about the issue and join in - that Geographers unite in their concern for the lack of status of the subject in the media. Both the public and the private sector recognise that graduate Geographers are much in demand and the subject provides people with a unique set of qualities that other graduates just do not have. This alongside the important role that Geography has to play in the education of young people in schools, means that we cannot just let the situation go...it is worth fighting for.

Spend just a little time this holiday weekend sending out some e-mails and telling whoever is in your address list about the campaign. It musn't fade away - this will happen unless a lot of people make an effort. [It now appears in Google search!]